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johnmorango2 |
Godparents |
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Is this only a Catholic thing? I have a couple but not 100% sure how many. I guess since I'm now safely past the age where it is relevant (be nice!)
it's all academic!
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Kestrel |
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nah,i'm C of E and i had three godparents (two uncles and an aunt) at my christening who were supposed to take care of my religious upbringing.........and
bloody useless they were at it too.
I only ever saw them at the occasional wedding and funeral. |
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KerryLNeal |
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It's a Christian thing; certainly Jews don't have them.
He had no grand scheme, no strategy, no agreement with higher authorities, nothing beyond a vague longing for glory and a generalized wish for revenge. |
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Stev042 |
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I'm Agnostic, but have a godson via a wife who was raised Catholic.
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And the Chupacabra! Madre de dios he'll kill us all!" -Max
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Freeradical79 |
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Christian thing, parents who over-see the religious up-bringing of the child and are supposed to act as independent counsel from the parents. In some cases you
are also the immediate guardian of the child in the event something happens to the parents.
I'm a God-Parent. But I missed the Christening. Whooooooooops. And I am an Atheist. The parents wanted the child to have well rounded views on the world. Though they are both PhDs and God-Parents both PhDs. Hope the poor kid doesn't feel pressured to go to uni Say Kerry, I thought the Jews had something similar at your snip-and-fold ritual?? ...there ain't a single night, when I haven't held you tight...
...but its always inside my head, never inside my bed... |
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KerryLNeal |
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^ Not really; if Jewsih parents wish to appoint Godparents, they can do so, but it's purely an honorific title and doesn;t have the same (theoretical)
responsibilities as in Christianity.
snip-and-fold ritual? He had no grand scheme, no strategy, no agreement with higher authorities, nothing beyond a vague longing for glory and a generalized wish for revenge. |
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KerryLNeal |
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^ Not really; if Jewsih parents wish to appoint Godparents, they can do so, but it's purely an honorific title and doesn't have the same
(theoretical) responsibilities as in Christianity. I mean please, which Jewish Momma is going o allow for even the theoretical possibility of ceding even a
tiny part of the control of their offspring's upbringing to anyone else ? *Ahem* I assume you;re referring to the Bris, the symbolic reaffirmation of the covenant between G-d and his people ? Tis a wee bit more than snipping and folding, m'dear ! Actually, my brother and I did not have a formal Bris as such, my parents being aethesits - we had a more sterile (in every sense) medical procedure when we were a bit older. He had no grand scheme, no strategy, no agreement with higher authorities, nothing beyond a vague longing for glory and a generalized wish for revenge. |
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johnmorango2 |
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KerryLNeal wrote: older? That must have been traumatic. |
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birgittesc |
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Godparents something Christian? Who knew! I always thought it had to do with who was going to raise you in case your parents die...
Aevericka BirgitteSC.com Birgitte's Kate Bush Page "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." -- Albert Einstein |
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Dervish Overdrive |
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KerryLNeal wrote:I will never understand why the mutilation of boys is seen as acceptable and normal.
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evetsmai |
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^^Birgitt, I would have said both of what you wrote...I understood it to be both a Christian as well as a hope that those chosen would be the ones that would
take care of the child if something horrible took the parents away from the child. At least that was my understanding when I was chosen by my sister as well as
my best friend and his wife. It certainly wasn't a Catholic thing as my friend Kip isn't Catholic. I wasn't present at my nephew's baptism.
Hmm, that reminds me, his birthday is approaching soon.
I have CDO. It's like OCD but with the letters in alphabetical order, like they're supposed to be.
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KerryLNeal |
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I will never understand why the mutilation of boys is seen as acceptable and normal.Well, I'm sort of on the fence on this one; I think that it is, on balance, not right to perform such an operation/action on a child who cannot give his consent, but on the other hand, I don't really agree with the use of the term 'mutilation', given it's highy emotive and perjorative connotations. Male circumcision doesn't have any major impact on the ability to give and receive sexual pleasure (unlike most forms of FGM) and the resulting change in the physical appearance of the penis is not so dramatic, and, in any case, in most modern cultures, the penis spends most of it's time hidden away from public view and is only seen by a select few. The immediate health risks from a well-performed circumcision, such as infection, medical shock, etc. even on a very young infant - are minimal, (again, unlike FGM). In terms of longer term public health interests, there are actually definite arguments in favour of circumcision; Several studies show that female partners of circumcised men tend to have lower rates of cervical cancer, and it is well documented that circumcised men are far less likely to contract HIV (and, for that matter, syphilis and gonorreah) from unprotected vaginal sex - indeed, quite a few public health officials urge widespread male circumcision as one of the key preventive measures that could be taken against HIV in Sub-Saharan Africa. Still, the benefits don't entirely resolve the dilema of whether or not it should be performed on a child without his being able to give meaningful consent. ( I use the qualifier entirely because we perform other medical procedures on children without their meaningful consent for both individual and public health concerns, so one could argue that the public health interest in circumcising boys trumps their individual rights to make that decision at a later stage). When it's so closely identified with religious identity I can see both sides of the argument; on the one hand, wait until the child is old enough to make his own decision, but on the other, if the laws and customs of the religion (as stated in the holy texts of that religious tradition) require circumcision as one of the signifiers of faith-membership, if you don't circumcise the child, then you are also making a decision without his consent about his religious liberty of conscience by denying him that signifier and concurrent 'full' membership of the faith; and if he decides at a later stage to have it done it's a slightly more challenging prospect after puberty (although from all I know, it's not - certainly if one has access to reasonable medical facilities and a skilled doctor - that painful a procedure even for adults). On a purely personal note, I'd have to say that whilst of course it's not necessary, it's certainly desirable. For me, obviously, as a central part of my faith; that eclipses any other concerns or issues with it. But I have to say, although it's never a deal-breaker, I have to admit that when a guy shucks his CK's, my heart sinks a little if he hasn't been circumcised. But that's just my preference, and, to be honest, underwear shedding in my presence (apart from at the gym changing rooms where it doesn't count) is such a rare occurence I can't afford to be picky Oi vey - awake and writing about circumcision at 2.30 in the morning. The joys of insomnia ! He had no grand scheme, no strategy, no agreement with higher authorities, nothing beyond a vague longing for glory and a generalized wish for revenge. |
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KerryLNeal |
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I understood it to be both a Christian as well as a hope that those chosen would be the ones that would take care of the child if something horrible took the parents away from the childThat's the modern practice, but the origin of the role of godparents is from baptism ceremonies; The requirement for some confession of faith necessitated the use of adults who acted as sponsors for the child. They vocalised the confession of faith and act as guarantors of the child's spiritual upbringing. At first this was done by the birth parents but then by the middle of the Ninth Century the church had declared it was actually illegal (in Canonical law) for a natural parent to perform the role (which is intersting as Augustine had held an almost opposite view only a few centuries before) and emphasised the understood obligation that the godparents would assume care for the child if they became orphaned. It's continued in roughly the same understanding since then except for Calvanists: Luther was quite strongly against the practice (because of the implications for incest penalties and prohibitions under Canonical law) and Calvin utterly opposed it. Interestingly, even the church of England saw it as a 'Papist' practice and banned it for about 20 years in the Seventeenth Century before reinstating it. Catholics still retain the insistence that a Godparent not be the birth parent, whereas most forms of Protestantism allow that. He had no grand scheme, no strategy, no agreement with higher authorities, nothing beyond a vague longing for glory and a generalized wish for revenge.
Last Edited By: KerryLNeal
March 12, 2009 02:57:43.
Edited 1 times.
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Freeradical79 |
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KerryLNeal wrote:Dito. I don't feel mutilated in any way, shape or form. In anglo-australia circumcision was performed primarily for health and cleansliness reasons, and also to prevent the dreaded and horrific ordeal of the foreskin not retracting properly as the child develops. Both of these reasons have become less important over the last 40 years. I personally would have preferred to make the decision as a teenager ... however that might leave scarring, which having had my snip at two days old has not been an issue. ...there ain't a single night, when I haven't held you tight...
...but its always inside my head, never inside my bed... |
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Mike Wade |
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He's 16 now, but I do love the letters I still get "from your loving oddson". Impressed as well that he has put up pics on Facebook of his most
recent holiday "with his oddparents". He's a fantastic kid
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montichka |
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KerryLNeal wrote:Speak for yourself, dear... I don't see male circumcision as sharing quite the same emotion as female in terms of describing it as 'mutilation' (for women I can't really see a time I'd not support the use of that term for it: for men less so somehow), but it still amazes me how routinely widespread the practice is. If you're a Darwinist why would you thingk we'd evolve with something we then have to manually remove? And if you support it for religious reasons that just seems even more ludicrous - why would your creator, however you call him/her, create you with the same need to slice it off? I don't have a preference either way on other people, and it is admittedly nice to have the variety. I was snipped myself in my teens, due to minor phimosis, although it's been done in a way that I do get a bit of roll-back when not erect, so it's like having the best of both worlds. This wasn't the original subject of this thread, was it? Monty x It is this that brings us together |
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KerryLNeal |
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^^^ Monty, when I wrote that line in my original post, I honestly thought of putting in some jokey comment along the lines of 'unless you're Monty'
and then thought I shouldn't just in case someone took it the wrong way: glad to see my initial instincts were not so far off the mark and that you can be
relied on to keep up the 'Carry On' humour of the forum !
He had no grand scheme, no strategy, no agreement with higher authorities, nothing beyond a vague longing for glory and a generalized wish for revenge. |
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montichka |
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^ Oh, you know me...
Monty x It is this that brings us together |
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Mike Wade |
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"Oh, you know me... "Given the debate so far, I guess I can assume you don't mean that biblically? |
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montichka |
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^ ba-dum tish!
Monty x It is this that brings us together |
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